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dc426
Cruiser Fan
Posted: Dec 20, 2007, 12:45 PM
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03 PT died codes P0016/P0340((UPDATE))
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Hi foks new to the forum and searching for answers. My 03 PT died suddenly today. It cranks and has spark but won't run. It gave codes P0016 and P0340. I pulled the plug to the cam position sensor to see if it would default to the crank position sensor as advised by someone but still won't run. I had to order a cam position sensor as no one had one in stock. So I guess I'll see if that's it when I get it. The car has 110000 miles on it. I don't know if the timing belt had been changed but I suspect it has been based on the fact that the car has upgraded plugs, wires and a few other things that only a PT buff would do.
Any input would be greatly welcome!
Thanks,
DC
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(This post was edited by dc426 on Jan 8, 2008, 5:30 PM)
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Posts: 9 | From: N/A
| Registered: Dec 20, 2007, 10:35 AM
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rsobhian
Cruiser Expert
Posted: Dec 20, 2007, 3:57 PM
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Re: [dc426] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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P0340 is no cam signal... Still looking up P0016... will post when I find it.
Read this thread. It sounds like the timing belt might have snapped. 
PS: Are you sure P0016 is correct? The closest I can find in the factory service manuals is P0106 (typo?), which is "barometric pressure out of range"
If so, again a broken timing belt could cause this because you the valves would be stuck in all sorts of positions and the manifold pressure would be going all over the place as the engine cranks.
Post PS:  Welcome to the forum 
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2001 silver Limited-Touring (leather/suede, 4W disk, traction, heated mirrors & all :-)
Mods: Tokico HP all around / Energy Suspension Master Kit / K&N drop-in / R1 Concepts drilled & slotte disks all around / Enkei RPF1 16x7 wheels & Conti Extreme Contact rubber / Prestige APS620 remote starter
(This post was edited by rsobhian on Dec 20, 2007, 4:17 PM)
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Posts: 425 | From: MA
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dc426
Cruiser Fan
Posted: Dec 20, 2007, 5:13 PM
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Re: [rsobhian] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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yes I'm sure that was the code. I did a search on this site and there is referance to that code. How can I tell if the T-belt is broken? Is there and easy way to get to it and see?
DC
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Posts: 9 | From: N/A
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rsobhian
Cruiser Expert
Posted: Dec 20, 2007, 5:40 PM
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Re: [dc426] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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So I did a search on p0016 on this forum and found IvAnOv's post on it, which says that it means the crank and cams are out of synch. Again, that would be caused by a broken timing belt.
The upper part of the timing belt cover is held on by two bolts. Once removed, you should be able to pull the top of it back far enough to see the top of the cam gears and check whether or not the timing belt is still in place.
The manual says you need to remove the upper torque strut to remove the cover, but hopefully you can get the cover loose enough to check the belt without having to do this.
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2001 silver Limited-Touring (leather/suede, 4W disk, traction, heated mirrors & all :-)
Mods: Tokico HP all around / Energy Suspension Master Kit / K&N drop-in / R1 Concepts drilled & slotte disks all around / Enkei RPF1 16x7 wheels & Conti Extreme Contact rubber / Prestige APS620 remote starter
(This post was edited by rsobhian on Dec 20, 2007, 5:43 PM)
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Posts: 425 | From: MA
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dc426
Cruiser Fan
Posted: Dec 21, 2007, 5:00 AM
Post #5 of 22
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Re: [rsobhian] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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so if this is the case (broken belt) what are the chances real damage has been done? I know in high compression, high lift cam applications contact between piston and valve is possible (probable) but I can't imagine it in this case????
DC
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Posts: 9 | From: N/A
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rsobhian
Cruiser Expert
Posted: Dec 21, 2007, 5:19 AM
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Re: [dc426] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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The thread I had referenced in my first post mentions that the PT engine is of a "non-interference" design, which means that as you had suspected the pistons don't hit the valves even if the are stuck open.
There is an excerpt from another forum that I had found and posted in this thread, however, that talks about the possibility of the intake and the exhaust valves hitting one another and causing damage. If true, would happen if the cam that operates the exhaust valves and the one that operates the intake valves were to spin out of synch. I am not 100% sure if this is true for the PT engine.
The bottom line is that, this has happened to others, and they have "walked away" from the experience for pretty much the same cost as changing the timing belt, which should be in the $500-1000 range. There should be no engine damage, and even if there is, the first step would be to change the timing belt and take a compression test to find out if there is additional damage.
If you're going to have the work done for you, shop around. Some people have been given quotes of up to $4000 for the job. 
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2001 silver Limited-Touring (leather/suede, 4W disk, traction, heated mirrors & all :-)
Mods: Tokico HP all around / Energy Suspension Master Kit / K&N drop-in / R1 Concepts drilled & slotte disks all around / Enkei RPF1 16x7 wheels & Conti Extreme Contact rubber / Prestige APS620 remote starter
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Posts: 425 | From: MA
| Registered: Aug 2, 2007, 7:47 PM
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dc426
Cruiser Fan
Posted: Dec 21, 2007, 5:38 AM
Post #7 of 22
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Re: [rsobhian] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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wonderful! well thanks for your help. I too love these forums because we as owners kinda get an upper hand on service issues. I may try to tackle this but I'm gonna consult a chryco service tech friend too.
Thanks.
DC
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Posts: 9 | From: N/A
| Registered: Dec 20, 2007, 10:35 AM
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rsobhian
Cruiser Expert
Posted: Dec 21, 2007, 5:55 AM
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Re: [dc426] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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NP.
Before you decide to do it yourself, know that doing the timing belt on a PT is a bit more complicated than the average car. You have to disconnect the exhaust, discharge the A/C, disconnect the engine mount, lift the front of the engine, AND there are lots of panels to take off and get out of the way just to get to things.
I do most of the work on my own cars and I have done timing belts on other cars, but given all that is involved on a PT, if I can find a place that will do it for around $500, I think I'd write that check.
If I were to do the job myself, given that I don't have the the machine to discharge/recharge the A/C, I would look into detaching the compressor from the side of the engine block and hanging it with something to support its weight. The reason you have to discharge the A/C in the first place is to be able to decouple the A/C lines so you can lift the engine. If what I said can be done, it would be another way of moving the engine up and keeping the A/C lines where they are.
Good luck.
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2001 silver Limited-Touring (leather/suede, 4W disk, traction, heated mirrors & all :-)
Mods: Tokico HP all around / Energy Suspension Master Kit / K&N drop-in / R1 Concepts drilled & slotte disks all around / Enkei RPF1 16x7 wheels & Conti Extreme Contact rubber / Prestige APS620 remote starter
(This post was edited by rsobhian on Dec 21, 2007, 5:56 AM)
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Posts: 425 | From: MA
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dc426
Cruiser Fan
Posted: Dec 21, 2007, 7:13 AM
Post #9 of 22
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Re: [rsobhian] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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Ok, I was able to get the 3 5/16 (I was surprised by that) screws out of the t-belt cover. The belt was still there and in very good shape. I could see the portion between the 2 can gears on the very top, approx. 6-7 inches worth. I marked a spot with a felt tip and bumped the starter. The spot moved accordingly. I believe the belt is not the problem???
Now, since I disconnected the battery yesterday there are NO codes. It goes right to "done" but the check engine light is still on and of course it won't start. Any ideas? Could it be the cam position sensor??
DC
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Posts: 9 | From: N/A
| Registered: Dec 20, 2007, 10:35 AM
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rsobhian
Cruiser Expert
Posted: Dec 21, 2007, 9:10 AM
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Re: [dc426] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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hmmm... interesting!
So just to be sure, you were getting the p0016 & p0340 codes BEFORE you unplugged the cam sensor for troubleshooting - right?
If that is the case, and you had a bad sensor, it would seem to reason that you'd get the code again. If you're getting a CEL, then there should be a code.
Going by the original codes, p0340 is no cam signal. So if the timing belt is there and the cams are moving, then that would suggest a bad cam sensor or a wiring problem.
I have to find more info on the p0016. As I mentioned before, I could not find anything in the factory service manuals about it and that is surprising. Based on what IvAnOv had said, if in deed the cams and the crank are not in synch, then judging by the high mileage and assuming that the belt has not been replaced, I wonder if another possibility would be a sheered off timing belt tooth?!
While you're waiting for your cam sensor to arrive, I'd remove the top timing belt cover and bring the engine to Top Dead Center (TDC) position and check to make sure the cams and the crank are in fact synch.
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2001 silver Limited-Touring (leather/suede, 4W disk, traction, heated mirrors & all :-)
Mods: Tokico HP all around / Energy Suspension Master Kit / K&N drop-in / R1 Concepts drilled & slotte disks all around / Enkei RPF1 16x7 wheels & Conti Extreme Contact rubber / Prestige APS620 remote starter
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Posts: 425 | From: MA
| Registered: Aug 2, 2007, 7:47 PM
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dc426
Cruiser Fan
Posted: Dec 21, 2007, 9:24 AM
Post #11 of 22
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Re: [rsobhian] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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I don't have a manual, so I'll need a little assistance with checking the sync. Can you give me a good explanation on how exactly to do this and what exactly needs to line up with what?
just so we're on the same page, a brief recap.
1)Car quite running.
2)checked for codes and got the above codes
3)disconnected battery and codes went away, still no start
4)checked belt, all appears well
5)replaced cam sensor and checked wiring
(((((the three wires leading to the cam sensor plug appear to have been spliced?? from the factory?? I don't know. they have shrink wrap on each individually and were then black electrical taped))))))) but still appear OK.
Thanks again.
DC
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Posts: 9 | From: N/A
| Registered: Dec 20, 2007, 10:35 AM
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garyerrol
Cruiser Expert
Posted: Dec 21, 2007, 9:37 AM
Post #12 of 22
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Re: [rsobhian] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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I found this on another forum by doing a Google search for P0017 error code for a PT Cruiser:
P0016=crank and cam out-of-sync...there are 4 pages of diags /maps calls wiring and both the cam and crank sensors .
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New owner 2001 Limited Edition. Shale Green Metallic. Factory stock except Voxx 16X7 wheels, Pirelli P3000 P205/55R16 tires, Tyco backup lights, 2006 tailight lenses, shorty antenna.
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Posts: 105 | From: Indianapolis, IN
| Registered: Dec 4, 2007, 11:50 AM
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dc426
Cruiser Fan
Posted: Dec 21, 2007, 10:11 AM
Post #13 of 22
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Re: [garyerrol] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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Gary can ya post a link to that?
Thanks
dc
BTW, I tried spraying carb cleaner in the throte of the throttle body to see if it would try to kick over. NOTHING!
When I turn the key on there is a "electric motor" kinda noise from what seems to be coming from under the hood. It starts, goes for about 3 seconds then cuts off. I don't ever recall hearing that before???
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Posts: 9 | From: N/A
| Registered: Dec 20, 2007, 10:35 AM
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garyerrol
Cruiser Expert
Posted: Dec 21, 2007, 11:16 AM
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Re: [dc426] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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Quote:
Gary can ya post a link to that?
Thanks
dc
http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/turbo-performance/1638-error-code-p0016.html
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New owner 2001 Limited Edition. Shale Green Metallic. Factory stock except Voxx 16X7 wheels, Pirelli P3000 P205/55R16 tires, Tyco backup lights, 2006 tailight lenses, shorty antenna.
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Posts: 105 | From: Indianapolis, IN
| Registered: Dec 4, 2007, 11:50 AM
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i_like_retro
Cruiser Expert
PT Cruiser Club Member
Posted: Dec 22, 2007, 2:34 AM
Post #15 of 22
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Re: [dc426] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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Quote:
When I turn the key on there is a "electric motor" kinda noise from what seems to be coming from under the hood. It starts, goes for about 3 seconds then cuts off. I don't ever recall hearing that before???
DC,
It sounds like your fuel pump priming the fuel system. Every fuel injected car (that I know of...) does this when the car starts. It should be a low humming sound just for a few seconds. It will do it any time you turn the key forward (regardless of whether you try to turn over the engine or not).
At least that's what it sounds like to me.
-Ray
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Posts: 234 | From: Cedar Hill, MO
| Registered: Apr 18, 2007, 11:35 PM
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dc426
Cruiser Fan
Posted: Dec 22, 2007, 5:40 AM
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Re: [i_like_retro] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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Alright, I was able to get the wife out to the shop and give me a hand. I had her bump the starter while I watched the t-belt. Turns out the motor turns over but the belt isn'nt moving! It's on there and tight but must be stripped at the crank. I wonder what in the world would cause this? Almost seems like the cams or valve are stuck??? Oh well, one dead PT.
DC
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Posts: 9 | From: N/A
| Registered: Dec 20, 2007, 10:35 AM
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rsobhian
Cruiser Expert
Posted: Dec 22, 2007, 7:34 AM
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Re: [dc426] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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Quote:
Turns out the motor turns over but the belt isn'nt moving! It's on there and tight but must be stripped at the crank. I wonder what in the world would cause this?
AGE! 101K miles and about 7 years will do that to a rubber belt. When you take it out, you will see that some of the teeth have been stripped. Quote:
Almost seems like the cams or valve are stuck??? Oh well, one dead PT.
If this is really the case, it's no good news. It means that the intake and exhaust valves can in deed run into one another and they may be hitting. Some resistance in the cams is normal, however, because the valves are spring loaded and as the cams spin, the cam lobes have to work against the pressure of the valve springs to push the valves open.
So the question is, are they really STUCK?
At this point, my recommendation would be to replace the timing belt (or have it replaced), with the timing belt in place, hand crank the engine from the crank pulley to make sure the engine is spinning without anything hitting anything. If that's all OK, take a compression test to see if all is OK. If so, you're good to go.  If any of the above fails, you're probably looking at a head rebuild. 
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2001 silver Limited-Touring (leather/suede, 4W disk, traction, heated mirrors & all :-)
Mods: Tokico HP all around / Energy Suspension Master Kit / K&N drop-in / R1 Concepts drilled & slotte disks all around / Enkei RPF1 16x7 wheels & Conti Extreme Contact rubber / Prestige APS620 remote starter
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Posts: 425 | From: MA
| Registered: Aug 2, 2007, 7:47 PM
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dc426
Cruiser Fan
Posted: Jan 8, 2008, 5:32 PM
Post #18 of 22
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Re: [dc426] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340((UPDATE))
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Turns out that the T-belt was stripped at the crank and not spinning. Took it to a friend to replace the T-belt, water pump and tensioner. $565.00 later she purrs like a kitten!
Thanks for all the input!
DC
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Posts: 9 | From: N/A
| Registered: Dec 20, 2007, 10:35 AM
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jbizzel
Cruiser Newbie
Posted: May 12, 2008, 7:33 PM
Post #19 of 22
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Re: [rsobhian] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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if your pt is a non turbo, you do not have to evac the a/c system or disconnect the exhaust.
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Posts: 2 | From: independence, mo
| Registered: May 12, 2008, 7:07 PM
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rsobhian
Cruiser Expert
Posted: May 13, 2008, 4:58 AM
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Re: [jbizzel] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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I assume you still jacked up the front of the engine to gain access to the timing belt, water pump...
If so, did that not put too much pressure on the A/C lines that are bolted to the top of the right shock tower? Did you do something else to get around that?
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2001 silver Limited-Touring (leather/suede, 4W disk, traction, heated mirrors & all :-)
Mods: Tokico HP all around / Energy Suspension Master Kit / K&N drop-in / R1 Concepts drilled & slotte disks all around / Enkei RPF1 16x7 wheels & Conti Extreme Contact rubber / Prestige APS620 remote starter
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Posts: 425 | From: MA
| Registered: Aug 2, 2007, 7:47 PM
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jbizzel
Cruiser Newbie
Posted: May 13, 2008, 3:41 PM
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Re: [rsobhian] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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i am an ase master mechanic. you can bend those lines quite a bit before they will brake. I am working on my mother n laws pt right now in her garage. it is a major pain when you are used to air tools. so far the only thing that i am worried about is that there could be valve damage. she had 165k on the car before the belt broke. i told her to do it a long time ago but she did not listen. the hardest part is taking off the crank shaft pulley though. i found that if you use the three jaw puller and the motor mount bolt that is a torx 55 and put pressure on the pulley and then tap with a hammer around the edges it will start to slide. i found that out after destroying the pulley first. i havent seen a parts total yet, but my father n law told me it was around 300 just in parts. so if i could have had it done for 500 i would have done that for sure.
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Posts: 2 | From: independence, mo
| Registered: May 12, 2008, 7:07 PM
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rsobhian
Cruiser Expert
Posted: May 13, 2008, 7:17 PM
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Re: [jbizzel] 03 PT died codes P0016/P0340
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Luckily, the PT engine is a "noninterfering" one so if the belt snaps when the engine is running the pistons don't reach the valves. There have been at least two other instances of it happening that I have seen on this forum and all that was needed was to replace the belt.
Also thanks for the tips on doing the job. I read the instructions in the factory service manual for all that was involved and basically have come to the same conclusion as you that if I can get it done for under $700 I would not even think about doing it myself.
If it's over $700-800, it's good to know I don't have to worry about the A/C.
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2001 silver Limited-Touring (leather/suede, 4W disk, traction, heated mirrors & all :-)
Mods: Tokico HP all around / Energy Suspension Master Kit / K&N drop-in / R1 Concepts drilled & slotte disks all around / Enkei RPF1 16x7 wheels & Conti Extreme Contact rubber / Prestige APS620 remote starter
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Posts: 425 | From: MA
| Registered: Aug 2, 2007, 7:47 PM
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